Honda Civic Fuel, Oil, Cleaners & Other MaintenanceExtending the life of your Honda Civic requires the proper fuel, oil, and cleaners, along with other regularly scheduled maintenance. Keep your Honda Civic fuel and oil at the right levels to keep your Civic on the road longer.
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Here... so you know I'm not talking just "hearsay"
this was in a pdf i found at the american petroleum institute. here are some excerpts. i believe this was also hilighted on the service advisor web site.
WHAT IS OCTANE RATING?
Octane, by definition, is the resistance to burn or detonation. The higher the rating, the slower the burn when ignited during the compression burn cycle of the piston. The higher octane allows for better control of burning for high compression engines. So we want to match the correct octane rating of the gasoline to the engine design to ensure complete burning of the gasoline by the engine for maximum fuel economy and clean emissions.
I THOUGHT GASOLINE WITH HIGHER OCTANE REDUCED ENGINE KNOCK?
It did in older engines using carburetors to regulate air/gas mix They cannot as accurately regulate the air/fuel mix going into the engine as a computerized fuel injector. Carburetors need adjustment, as a part of regular maintenance, to keep the air/fuel mix as accurate as possible. So many times, these adjustments were not made regularly causing too much fuel to be mixed with the air. When this happened the gasoline would not burn completely soaking into carbon deposits. This would cause a premature ignition of the gasoline due to the intense heat in the engine cylinder creating "engine knock." When this happened, people would change to the higher octane/slower burning gasoline to resist the premature burn, thus minimizing the knocking problem. And it worked. Good solution.
However, since the middle to late 80’s, engines are designed to use fuel injectors with computers to accurately control the air/fuel mix under all types of temperature and environment concerns. However the accuracy of the fuel injectors and computers is based on using the recommended gasoline for that engine.
Most cars are designed to burn regular unleaded fuels with an octane rating of 87. If the vehicle needs a higher octane rating of 89-93, there is documentation in the owner’s manual, as well as possibly under the fuel gauge and by the fuel fill hole. Usually you will see this rating for high performance engines only.
WHAT IF I PREFER TO USE GASOLINE WITH HIGHER OCTANE RATINGS?
You can, but there are no real benefits, other than the gasoline manufacturers making more money off of you. When you use a fuel with a higher octane rating than your vehicle requires, you can send this unburned fuel into the emissions system. It can also collect in the catalytic converter. When you over stress any system, it can malfunction or not do what it was designed to do properly. In the early 90's, an early warning symptom was a rotten egg smell from the tailpipe. Easy fix, go back to using regular 87 octane gasoline. The rude odor usually disappears after several tanks of gasoline.
DOESN'T HIGHER OCTANE GASOLINE HAVE MORE CLEANING ADDITIVES THAT ARE GOOD FOR MY ENGINE?
No. Government regulations require that all gasoline contain basically the same amount of additives to clean the injectors and valves. The only differences are the type to help create the different octane ratings. All gasoline burns at the same rate, it is the additives that create the different octane ratings for the different types of engines.
Well you can buy the lower octane gas that is still part of the top tier program. The shell v-power (highest octane) has 5x more detergents, but the lower grades also have enough to meet the standard. I'm gonna keep using 89 to be safe, but stock civics only need 87.
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Cars that do not have higher compression have a lower temperature of the mixture before ignition. (this is basic physics... the more you compress air/matter the hotter it gets) So in a car that does not have higher compression, honda builds the car from the factory with the appropriate timing for the recommended octane.
Higher octane gas burns LONGER since it is more resistant to detonation and heat. So the time it takes to burn through the mixture on 87 octane is LESS than what it takes to burn through a mixture with 93 octane.
if your car is setup for 87 octane (like the civic) the 93 octane will not have completely burned through the mixture by the time your combustion chamber has opened the exhaust valves and is scavanging the mixture. This gives the still burning mixture the not-so-great opportunity to burn through your valves since it now has an out and a re-introduction of oxygen via the open exhaust valves. This is what causes the buildup of crap on your valves and other parts which can lead to damage down the road. Also because the mixture did not finish burning, some of that fuel or unburned mixture can go through your exhaust and then settle in your catalytic converter, causing you to fail emissions and/or damage your cat.
So there are 2 keys to having a car that can run premium effectively without these issues. number 1, higher compression, which causes more heat, allowing the mixture to burn more efficiently and more thoroughly with less leftover contaminants.
number 2, advanced ignition timing and retarded exhaust valve timing, allowing the mixture more time to burn with closed valves.
going from 87 to 89 octane isn't too bad, but going from 87 to 93 can be harmful in the long run and cause a loss of power in the short run. (if your mixture burns all the way through, it gives you more power obviously)
if shell sells "top tier" 93 octane gasoline, federal law states their regular 87 octane sold on the same pump MUST have the same amount of cleaning agents in it, which means the 87 octane must also meet the top tier standard. all gas under a brand of gasoline company must have the same amount of cleaning agents in them regardless of octane rating.
the FTC states this: As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.
this from the american petroleum institute:
Additives
Each major oil company typically adds its own proprietary additives to the basic recipe for gasoline in order to provide or enhance specific performance features. And, most important, each company provides the technical expertise to back its brand. They also must ensure that the additive package is contained in every gallon of gasoline sold under their brand name. Many customers buy branded gasoline because of this consistent quality. Deposit control additives, which are found in all gasoline by law, keep engines clean and make them run more efficiently. Deposits in carburetors or in fuel injectors, for example, can affect the engine’s overall air-fuel ratio as well as an individual cylinder air-fuel ratio, which in turn can affect fuel economy, emissions and driveability.
So, while the addatives and types of cleaning agents CAN vary from brand to brand, the amount of addatives and addative packages for each brand's 87-93 octane gas cannot. So if shell has top tier gas at a station, all of its gas by law, regardless of octane, must meet the top tier standards package of cleaning agents.
what happens if you use a gasoline with a lesser octane rating than what the car is supposed to have? Example. My dad stopped using the premium 91 or 93 (I forget which one it is) on his Nissan Pathfinder and started using 87. What is this gonna do to his engine? Lose power since the gas is burning quicker than its supposed to?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
OMG
i remember not too long ago when I was trying to sell my old car I had a "4-SALE" sign painted big on the back window. Once in a while someone would pull up next to me in the street and ask how much I was asking. And I would say in my most convincing voice,"More than you can afford pal, TOYOTA!" Then I would just roll my window up, and drive away crackin up!!!
BWAAAAHAAHAA!!! thats classic
what happens if you use a gasoline with a lesser octane rating than what the car is supposed to have? Example. My dad stopped using the premium 91 or 93 (I forget which one it is) on his Nissan Pathfinder and started using 87. What is this gonna do to his engine? Lose power since the gas is burning quicker than its supposed to?
As long as the engine is made for 87, nothing will happen. He will have a tank 87+ octane, go through and then nothing, assuming the engine is made for 87 octane.
pure iso-octanol (the harder to get of the two forms of octanol) is considered to have an octane rating of 100. 87% iso-ocatanol and 13% n-octanol has an octane rating of 87. Every other compound is then measured agianst 100% iso-octanol, for instance methanol, has an octane rating of 104, so it is 104% harder to ignite than iso-octanol.
You see this has little to do with carbon build up. Really it is more like the adative they put in to the fuel, try changing gas stations. But from what I have seen of other peoples pistons on this site, it isn't abnormal. Gearbox had heavy build up after only 20k (i think it was 20K) and he never sprayed or anything (that I know of).
What a company can do is take a low grade fuel, like say 80 octane octanol, and mix 5% methanol (which has an octane rating of 104) and get 87 octane. These addative have are more likely to cause carbon build up. Some of these addative are to raise the octane while other are for the enivroment.
Also keep in mind, methanol is bad, not for your engine but for all the plastic lines and O-rings, Shell uses methanol in their gas.
This is about what S2000man01 said.
This is text book stuff, yes I have those text books. I'm a chemical engineer, chemical enginers purpose is to refine oil and work in the petroleum industry.
In the end, just use what gas your manual cars for. Detergents are nice, but your car doesn't require them to run nor will they give noticable power or anything of that nature nor will they clean you engine more (well maybe a little, but you'll never notice the difference). Listen to S2000man01, he knows what he's tlaking about here.
i have been using premium in my V6 accord since day 1. dunno what to do now.
Same here. i've been using 91 octane in my 03 civic since day one...i now have 50+ thousand miles on her and she still run's great....this hole post thread in based on the soul opinion of one biast person......if you want a "Real" scientific hypothisis and conclution research ALL of the products, w/ the Positives and Negetives....its obviouse by now that we all know the Definition of the word "Octane".....But all engines run diffrently, no matter if there the same generation engine or what have you....if you statement is true s2000 then why havnt i had any Significant powerloss, and why does my engine in all its technical specs. have minimal wear to it...........maybe its not the gasoline or the additives....maybe its the driving habbits of thouse who race to every red light. Everyone has ther own opinion on gasoline, you MIGHT be correct in your statment but only to a small degree, and even then Using a Lower quality Gasoline also Has its disadvantages, like deposits. ect. just because the goverment sets a standard, does not mean that that standard is correct....show me some prof. not the statments of biast persons..like the gasoline companys testemonies or even the Department of Energys Statments...........i wana see 3 engines 3 diffrent types of gasoline, and 3 diffent results then...and only then....will i stop "pissing away my money" You cant forget that 03+ civic ecu's have the ability to "learn" or compinsate for diffrent situations...........for example if you add and intake the ecu will compinsate for the add'd air in the mixture, and run the car more rich...its also possible that it can compinsate for the higher octane in the fuel , or another example...anyone w/ a vafcII can tell ya this......if you set your vafc to a certine point the ecu will reconize it ( given enought time like 2 months or somthin) and revert back to stock. hence the reason your cars dont feel as powerful as they origanly did when you put it on.
Edit: P.s After reading my own post it has come to me that it might seem alittle ummmm mean...i dont know..i didnt mean for it to come out that way but anyway...yea thats it..
