Honda Civic Fuel, Oil, Cleaners & Other MaintenanceExtending the life of your Honda Civic requires the proper fuel, oil, and cleaners, along with other regularly scheduled maintenance. Keep your Honda Civic fuel and oil at the right levels to keep your Civic on the road longer.
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That's worrying me about the carbon. My block was a mess after 20k with dino oil, but I need to take the car somewhere to get oil changed. synthetic would be a big hassle for me unless I buy the oil and have dealer do it or something. which weight of synthetic is the best for our cars, and brand?
When I use synthetic, I use 5w20, you will find very few options though for a full synthetic 5w20. I use Royal Purple because Summit Racing has it, and their many store is less than five minutes from my work. I think Mobil 1 makes a 0w20 that would be okay to use on occasion, IMO. I never go to a thicker oil than the manufacture sugest unless you are burning oil. Becasue the oil they sugest, is sugested with a cuase, generally that cause is that the thinner oil can go "slung" up into the gap between the piston and the wall. The lighter oil suggestion is comes from the fact that this gap has becaome narrow, tolerances on engines have become far smaller, as such you need a thiner oil to pentrate the gap. It is just what I have heard when I visted Honda's R&D. SO then to use a thinner oil would be okay in that respect, but then getting back to S2000man01's point, using thinner oil will cuase more blow buy, this means more oil will get into the combution chamber and burn, this won't do much to the engine, but will shorten the life of the cats (both of them) and O2 sensors. Hence the reason I say to use once in a while.
My advice if you are getting bad carbon build up, have the dealer use Honda oil when changing your oil. Honda oil has similiar addatives to some of the more expensive synthetic oil, but not all of them, long story short, Honda oil should break down the carbon too. Look around to see what some dealers are offering. For instance, a dealer by me offers 10 oil changes for $150, that's $15 an oil change that includes a new Honda filter, topping all the fluids, a 25 point under car inspection, and a laser wash (it gets under the chasis too). I can't do that stuff that cheap my self.
Oh yeah, what exactly did you have carbon build up on at 20k? I thought you changed your heads around there with the DH heads, so I'm guess on the cam and all that good stuff?
Okay, I just reread my notes that I took about five years ago when I was working with oils. I've got three things for ya:
1. Make sure what ever oil you are using is API certified (except some of the better Amsoil products like the XL-7500). Stay away from SAE oil, these do not have the needed detergents and don't suspend the small carbon particles in the oil, instead you get a "sledge" on the bottom of your oil pan.
2. Try a using a high detergent oil. This can be dino or synthetic, but use this every now and then and you can clean this up.
3. If you can change your own oil, try puring and extra half qurat in to the engine while the drian plug is out after the rest of the oil has drianed out. This will get the a bit of dirty oil out of the car, this is not needed, but give me a little peice of mind.
Now I must clarify something. I was somewhat wrong about the mineral oils. Most of these have the same detergents as the synthetics. The ONLY reason to use synthetic oil is if you have a engine that produces lots of heat (i.e. a turbo, supercharger, or very high revving, as in up to and over 10,000 RPMs). The only advantage to synthetic is that it doesn't break down as fast when eposed to higher heats. S2000man01 is correct in saying you can easily go 5k on mineral oil, what he forgot to mention is that the oil has to be API certified and NOT an SAE oil. The reason you can go 5k on mineral oil is becasue almost the same detergents are added to the mineral oil as the synthetic. Where he is wrong is that the phosphore content in an API certified oil will not be enough to kill your cat, otherwise it would not be API certified, so changing your oil to oftenn won't hurt your cat, as long as you stick with an API certified oil.
There is one toher thing anbody with a VTEC engine should be aware of though. OIl gets darker becasue it suspends these small particles in it. When these particles become in high enough concentration, it can changes the compressiblity of the oil. To most cars this is no big deal at all, but VTEC uses the oil as a type of hydrolic fluid to activate the VTEC. If your oil goes to long between changes and accumulates to many of these particles, you many devlope long term problems with your VTEC engagment system. A case of this is know in the Saturn S series where the timing belt tensioner is controlled by a hydrolic system that use oil as the hydrolic fliud. If the oil gets to dirty, the tensioner fials making the timing jump and destoring the engine. Saturn suggests changing oil every 3k no matter what on those cars now. I beleive they have gotten away from this system now, but our VTEC works in a similiar fasion. My suggestion has now chaged to the following: change oil every 4.5-5k with a good (API certified 5w20) mineral oil. For those of us with VTEC, don't even think of going over 5k for an oil change.
How come the owners manual on my element suggests oil changes every 10,000 miles and the element has a k24 with vtec or i-vtec or whatever.
Im not discounting you, Im just trying to figure out why they suggest the motor can handle 10,000 miles if there could be problems with the vtec engagement
another thing, what is running lean? people say that turbo make your car run lean. does it mean that the car runs lean to the side, like an allignment problem?
The only way to tell is to do an analysis on the oil coming out of your car. It changes for everyone. It looks like you can go past 5k miles on a VTEC with the right oil.
How come the owners manual on my element suggests oil changes every 10,000 miles and the element has a k24 with vtec or i-vtec or whatever.
Im not discounting you, Im just trying to figure out why they suggest the motor can handle 10,000 miles if there could be problems with the vtec engagement
I have an Accord which has the same drivetrian as your element, K24 with the 5 speed auto (I'm guessing you have an auto, but that isn't the quetion here so never mind). The 10,000 mile oil change is under "normal condiotions" according to Honda. Where I live is not normal conditions, this morning when I started my car, the temp was 6 degrees F. It can also be very dusty where I live during the summer. My point is unless you drive only highway miles where it is 70F and no dust, I really wouldn't call it "normal conditions." It kind of falls under the idea that my car can get 34 MPG, I have yet to break 26 MPG with it, but Honda says it can on the highway. Both measurememts are to the extreme. Normal coniditons are not pratical for most people and severe probably only falls under a few, most people I'm guessing are somewhere inbetween noram and severe. I personally am going to go for the safer than sorry method and just say I drive severe. True, I don't think Hondas VTEC system is quite as bad as Saturn, although late preludes with H22A's are prone to this exact problem. The K series is being used all over Honda's line up and I am guessing they built it almost bullit proof if they are willing to put it that many cars. Thing is though, carbon can build up not only becasue of oil burning, but because of bad gas, bad enviroment, bad air filter ect. As dieselDrew pointed out the only real way to know is to have your oil analized.
Your oil needs to be changed before it is saturated with carbon, or it can't suspend any more in it, this is when carbon really starts depositing on the internals. That may be untill 12,500 if all goes well. Or you could get a bad tank of gas or a dusty day or whatever, where lots of carbon is formed, this may kill your oils life by 5,000 miles, then when you wait to change your oil till the 10k mark, but your oil was saturated at 7.5k, so the oil that can not pick up the carbon, so it simply deposites it in pressure gradient areas, like the VTEC system. IF you think you can wait until 10,000 mile, go for it, but I will sitck to the sever coniditions, not to mention here in Ohio we have crappy high sulfur gas that kills the pH of oil.
The only way to tell is to do an analysis on the oil coming out of your car. It changes for everyone. It looks like you can go past 5k miles on a VTEC with the right oil.
With the right oil and right conditions. The quesiton is how expensive is the right oil and is it worth it?
Talking to some old timer Honda owners they say the same thing or Same song every 3 to 5k depending on what type of person you are, there's two types (A) if you drive slow and baby your car and gas then 5k But if you are type (B) in the Fast lane or Diamond lane cruising at 80mph and get-out-of-my-way! type, then every 3k the choice is yours! Sorry, I'm type (B)
you know i have been reading all the threads in the oil/other maintanace section. i think someone should have a thread dedicated to arguing the 3k oil change vs higher. i just keep seeing the same arguement with diff people.
you know i have been reading all the threads in the oil/other maintanace section. i think someone should have a thread dedicated to arguing the 3k oil change vs higher. i just keep seeing the same arguement with diff people.
Civic minded old man/ low-loud-loven it!
The Choice is Yours! 
