Nitrous1024

I'm doing an auto to manual swap on my 5 door LA-EU1. I already have the EP3 Si shifter and pedals, can I buy ANY D-series gearbox and it bolts up to my engine and chassis without any hassle? I don't want to buy a manual subframe.

Nitrous1024

Yesterday, I installed the EP3 brake pedal myself. It a tiring process as I had to be lying on my back to look up under the dashboard to unbolt and remove the automatic transmission brake pedal and install the manual one. The process took about 30 minutes as I had spent time looking at both pedal brackets only to find out that they were identical (except the rubber section where you place your feet). Since the accelerator pedal was identical, I didn't bother to swap it with that of the EP3.

I didn't get to install the clutch pedal as planned due to the complexity of removing the park brake assembly which seemed to be hydraulically operated as opposed to applying tension to a simple cable. I had made the mistake of buying a used ES1 civic handbrake only to realize that I have no way of connecting it to the floor. I was going to rip out the carpet and take a look at the mounting location, but it got too dark to do that inspection. I was told that there is an "indentation" that I'd simply tap/cut/drill-out to get the hand brake in. I'm partially afraid of wasting time to do it, only to find out that it is not possible to install the handbrake this way. I keep hearing about the hand brake needing a special console to mount the hand brake on (as the EU series has a flat-floor design). I don't know what the console looks like as I can't even find it online.


My fear with the clutch pedal is that I can't locate where the clutch master cylinder should go in the firewall, because I think the EPS might be in the way. I notices that the EP3 uses the regular power steering mechanism directly attached to the K20A while the EU1 uses a completely electric version As for the foot operated park brake, I would have removed it, but cutting the hydraulic line would have resulted in fluid spilling all over the carpet. Besides, I haven't actually purchased the master clutch cylinder as yet to properly complete the bolt-up.

paulymcd7

i dont know about any d series as there is the d16 and d17 and idk if there are others but as long as you have a d series motor (assuming d17 for 7th gen) a 7th gen d series should bolt right up but another way to check is to either call your local honda store or do some research and check to see what the part number of an eu1 manual trans is and check that against any other 7th manual d series manual trans and if the numbers match then there you go

also im planning to do this next summer what are your reccomendations as to how to go about this drill all the holes for the shifter and clutch pedal and attach the pedal separately to give more time to the installation of the trans itself? what are some other small things like that that i can do to avoid extra headaches on installation day?

Thaik

Hi,

I do not need to do an Auto to Manual tranny swap as my car is already a manual one but I need to know if I buy and swap in an engine from a Automatic Transmission car, will it fit?

I think I saw somewhere that the Front motor mount of an automatic transmission engine is different that a manual one.

The reason why I intend to swap in an engine from a automatic car is that I believe automatic engine have a lot less stress in them since it's automatic and in general automatic drivers don't "race" with them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thaik

I'd like to know if you replaced the front engine mount since the Front Engine mount from an automatic car is different than a manual.

Nitrous1024

Oops, I'm just seeing all your replies now.
I didnt swap the front engine mount as I don't know which one to put in as yet. We don't have a good Honda dealer in Jamaica for non-USDM vehicles, so they don't know anything about the EU series civic nor have parts for this vehicle.
The engine is the D15B with the PLE2 head.

@Thaik, automatic drivers revv the hell out of their engines just the same too. The problem with an automatic engine is that it will have crappier cams than that of a manual and also a lower revv limiter set by the ECU. You may have to change parts of the intake manifold if you want real performance from the automatic engine when it's mated to your manual gearbox.


I haven't drilled any holes as yet, so I'll let you know next week

paulymcd7

Wait so an automatic engine has a different cam than an engine paired with a manual trans?

spartakus

how much would this swap approximately cost if I was to have it done in an autoshop?

Nitrous1024

Yes, manual engines have more aggressive shaped (and angled) camshafts.
Automatic has camshafts are tuned for normal engine cruising and overtaking operation anywhere between 3,500 to 5,500 RPM.

@spartakus : since I'm in Jamaica, the cost of labour and parts would be around $620 in american currency.

spartakus

Hmm.. not as bad as I thought..

paulymcd7

okay so when i swap next summer im getting a bunch of parts from a u pull in pennsylvania 3 hours away when i find the manual car that best suits the swap im gonna need to rip the cam out as well? besides the obvious transmission shift linkages cluthch lines and clutch cylinder shifter pedal etc anything else i would need? like from the engine because i didnt know about the cam im gonna get the ecu as well apparently its not needed but i wanna be thorough

Nitrous1024

You don't have to change the cam or ECU. That was just my personal preference for removing the RPM limiter (since you would have to do some retiring to make the car think that the transmission is in neutral).

Thaik

I didn't know manual and automatic engine had different cam profile.
Where did you that info? Not that I don't believe you but this seems interesting.

Nitrous1024

They also have different "head-codes", IAC and throttle bodies.
I'll get two most obvious comparisons to you shortly.

paulymcd7

what do you mean by "retiring"

Nitrous1024

Oops, I meant to say "re-wiring". The issue with not changing your ECU is that your engine will not revv higher than 5000rpm since the ECU thinks the car is still in neutral. This also mean NO VTEC until you re-wire the car properly. I'm hoping to buy my gearbox this Saturday then get it installed next week end.

paulymcd7

i have no VTEC so no problem and what kind of rewiring is necessary? and this will be my first manual car so is not going higher than 5k a big deal?

Nitrous1024

No VTEC??? No problem.

You will just have to re-wire the interlock solenoid so that it allows you to take the key out the ignition. You will need to observe which 2 pins or wires are touching when the 7position selector is shifted to neutral and permanently wire them together.

Not being able to revv over 5,000RPM will be a problem when you need to overtake a slower vehicle up a hill or around corners (when it's safe to do so).
This will also affect your ability to accelerate while shifting from 4th to 5th during launches.

Keeping it limited to the 5,000rpm will go great for your fuel economy though.

I bought my gearbox kit today, so I need to make some time to get it installed

Nitrous1024

notice the M stamped on the middle one indicating that it came factory from the manual trans version of D15B.


I went to my mechanic over the weekend to look at some other camshafts as well to see the differences for myself. The USDM ones will have a wide range of mix and match parts (do it's not set in stone). The JDM versions will have a narrower range more tuned for aggressive performance.

The auto vs manual cams shouldn't really matter in your case once its paired with the right ECU (except if its chipped) or an adjustable cam-gear will also give you great joy (for either aggressive performance or great fuel-economy).

dsfoster63

I need to get a clearer copy of the the pin out that you posted

Nitrous1024

When I get to the office later today, let me see what I can find for you.

mazzas

Excellent resource. I'm loving my Civic again!

gerardoveracru

[QUOTE=2002civicrider;4477585]Parts List:

Trans
Manual Subframe
Trans Mounts
Shifter
Shift Linkage
Master Cylinder
Manual Axles (You only need the drivers side)
Slave Cylinder
Pedal Assembly
Starter
Clutch
Flywheel
Manual Center Console (Or just the shifter bezel piece)

Not needed but nice to have:

Manual ECU
Manual Cluster
Manual Dash Harness
Manual Engine Harness



How much would all this parts cost and what's the difference w and it out n the not needed but nice to have parts

bonelegacy

I did the swap but i have the auto brain & harness my car maxes out at 4500........what i would like to know is if i just got a manual brain and had it flashed would it work with the auto harness? If yes would it perform %100 percent?

Kunkle2000

if I buy a totaled 02 civic ex same engine as mine I should have all of the parts that I need to do the swap. On a scale from 1 to 10 and 10 being a headgasket job what this job rate also since you didn't change your computer it was not necessary to have the key module set by honda correct? And the subframe is what the undercarriage thats black? What was the hardest part of job? And I plan on taking engine and transmission and swapping them both this should be easier yes? And could I use the instrument panel without changing the ECU? Seems like if I have to take it apart to take bulbs out might as well replace I'll have an entire 5 speed car to pull from.. any input would greatly be appreciated.thanks john

Nitrous1024

If you don't swap the manual ECU, then you will have to temporarily trick the car into thinking that it is in PARK or Neutral when you need to start the car (via the interlock switch).
You will then need to fool the car into thinking that the transmission is in DRIVE when you want to be able to rev the engine through out its RPM range. The driving experience (in my opinion is not as crisp as that of a manual ECU.

I didn't buy a new subframe, I just cut & re-welded my front bracket for the mount as that is the difference between the two.

If a headgasket job is a "10", then I'd describe this job from start to finish as a "6". I'd rate it as a "8" if you don't have the required, tools, hoist and workspace (especially since if it is your first time doing this type of work). The end result was worth it in my opinion. I believe the immobilizer for these cars were from 2003 upwards (mine was a 2001 model). If I were you, I'd just take the gearbox, shifter, and clutch/brake pedal from the totaled EX.

Kunkle2000

my motor since this happened also has been leaking a **** ton of oil on the trans side I've always had a leak on valve cover but this is bad now probably a half cup over three days sitting and my engine has 240000 miles on it and the one I'm buying with the 5 speed. Has 93,000 on whole car. Would I need to program ECM if I changed motor and tranny and ECM from 5 speed car and use the key that came with that car or is there an issue of the harness not working with the 5 speed ECU is the automatic a different harness. If so with it all disconnected is it that hard to just put in the manual harness? Just trying to get the best car with what I got between the two ya know what I mean? I'm a poorboy no car can't get to work now cause the tranny is sealed can't even change the filter which I think is the problem it runs fine then throws itself into neutral like state until I restart it. And I can even do this on the fly driving it starts slipping out it in neutral driving turn key off start it back up and it drives on like nothing's wrong.i wish I could talk to someone to walkn me through cause I don't think there's much wrong with that one. But since I can't I'd much much rather have a newer lower mile engine with a five speed. 😀 The subframe is the black frame that holds engine and tranny in place yes? So the VIN must be in the ECM so if I get the key with the parts car I should be good right? Or am I changing a harness too??Thanks for replies I appreciate it I go-to get this car UO asap in Pittsburgh area Greensburg if anyone's local to givee some pointers. I don't even have a scan tool......😓

Kunkle2000

Oh cool so I won't hav3 to worry about immobilizer cause both mine are 2002

Nitrous1024

If the ECM actually had an immobiliser (and the new key has the matching chip) then you would swap the ECM, key and key-barrell with the immobilizer circuit attached to it. The issue with that is that you would then have a key for the ignition that doesn't match the doors and trunk (unless you took the task of swapping those out too).


Fortunately, your car doesn't have such an immobilizer (for a 2002 model).
You can simply switch the ECU (if you want full RPM without having to do any re-wiring).

The VIN wasn't stored in my 2001 automatic ECM and I took a 2002 manual ECM but there was no VIN stored there either (so it doesn't seem to matter in these cars). Once you have the pinouts for the ECU, you don't need to swap the harness. The automatic ECM uses 3 plugs while the manual one only uses 2. You will see what I mean when you have both ECMs side by side. They have grooves, so you won't mix it up. The unused automatic plug has a wire that you need to defeat the interlock system (for allowing the starter to engage).
The only other thing to note is that the housing for the plug of reverse selector switch that you would connect to the manual gearbox is shaped differently (this closes the circuit to illuminate your reverse lights). I simply cut out sections of the plastic housing or spliced the plug from the manual harness. If doesn't matter which route you take since you are simply connecting the circuit.

Yes. If you want to be cheap like me, you can simply cut&re-weld the front bracket for the mount as that is the difference between the automatic and manual subframe.

Kunkle2000

so this method of having the ECM is using the manual ECM correct I will have to defeat the interlock and reverse even if I use the same ECM that came with the engine and tranny I out in?