Fixing the understeering buffalo....

Boilermaker1 · 07-11-2004

So I had one of those days. One of the aweful ones where its not me vs. everyone else, its me vs. my own damn car.
I was like "Turn Bitch" and it was saying "Fu(k off, I'm going straight", then I'd say slow down, and it'd be like "I don't wanna". Yeah... one of those days where you drive the car and you think you're doing fine, everyone else thinks the car isn't out of shape, yet it refuses to do what you want it to do. According to the local grey hairs, at some point, its the car's fault, and they think I hit it again. SO... moving right along. I need some way to get rid of my plow.
3 options present themselves...
1. Big ass rear sway bar. I'm running a 19 right now, which leaves open 22-26mm options from OEM JDM Honda, Progress, Comptech, Mugen, etc... ranging anywhere from $90 to $600
2. Smaller front sway bar. The only one I'm aware of is the 16mm OEM 03/04 Honda sway bar, I don't know the price, but I know its not too bad.
3. 400 or 425 lb front springs. This is opposed to the 500 currently in there. The only thing is these are a pain in the ass to change and I just paid for an alignment, don't feel like doing it again yet. $130 + alignment

So any thoughts on which might work better? Or am I looking at equal function from either end. I'm kinda thinking just making the car oversteer more won't really solve the problem, and i need to loosen up the front first and see what happens. But I'm not sure. Thoughts?

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Hawk · 07-11-2004

i have the progress rear sway in my car. My car understeered like a pig before, exspecially with the motor in it, but now i can get the ass out on command. Not even a hint of understeer anymore, It's quite fun.

macrossranma · 07-11-2004

disable abs, major difference, before i have too much understeer, now i have very good oversteer with abs off. Tire pressure helps a bit too

FattyMcJ · 07-12-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by macrossranma

disable abs, major difference, before i have too much understeer, now i have very good oversteer with abs off. Tire pressure helps a bit too

Not that I'm a pro or anything...but when it was cold out, and the azenis didn't like the track temp....I'd just lower the front psi and it'd behave like I wanted it to. (Front Koni's set to FULL soft, and rear set to FULL FIRM)....there was nothing left for me to do, but drop the front psi. It werked fer me!

I think I went a bit TOO low a few times, but only because I couldn't get my hands on a pump quick enough between runs, or I'd have raised the rear pressure to kick out the ass end......

But either way, I got results.

Just a suggestion...

Zzyzx · 07-12-2004

The cheepest thing would be to run an 03 Front bar. (About $80) Thats the set up I'm running now, 15.9MM Front 19mm rear. it is SUbstantually better then the 25.4mm front and 19mm rear I was running before. BUT. It still understeers at its limits, So I'm getting the Hotchkiss 25.4mm Hollow Rear bar (2 Position adjustible). Hopefully this will help me close the gap on a lil 89 Si that I have to chase down now.

Green Civic · 07-12-2004

I think you should be good with options 1 and 2. Just like Zzyzx stated. Sounds like it would be the cheapest and most benifical way to go.

Boilermaker1 · 07-12-2004

Well in given a little bit of a time crunch ( I want it for next weekend), I bought a 22mm rear. As soon as I get some more time, I'll pickup a 16mm front and then go play with it until I get something I like. As far as one of those integrated tiebar/swayber support brackets go.... BoilerFab is on it.

jiggerachi · 07-13-2004

Just curious, I am thinking about getting a 15mm front bar. Im running on stock suspension, with a 19mm rear bar right now, i'm wondering how bad this will make the car handle on the street. My fiance drives the car on occasion & i'd hate to see it go into the wall or something like that with her in it, I dont want it to be dangerous. I'm pretty shure it would be ok on azenies, but what about cruising down the freeway on my normal Kumho 712s??

Zzyzx · 07-13-2004

I daily drive with the 15mm front and 19mm rear with Eibach sportline springs, I've never had an oversteer problem with it unless I was trying to make it oversteer. It grips quite well really, BUt still wants to understeer at its limits.

jiggerachi · 07-23-2004

^Another question I just thought of:

How bad is the body roll with a 15.9 front bar?? I think im going to get one, but since i'm on stock suspension for a month or so, i'm worried i'll have a ton of body roll with it, untill I can get some stiffer struts(Konis). What kind of difference would you think it would make concerning body roll??

Zzyzx · 07-23-2004

There is more body roll then when I had my 25.4mm front bar... But , body roll isnt really a big deal, as it can be compensated for by running more negitive camber on the front. the handling balance however was really quite nice for a street car. I've since gotten a 25.4mm Rear bar... so far its been fun. Well see how it really handles this weekend.

Konis wont actually reduce body roll, but they will control how fast you get to that Terminal body roll point.

FattyMcJ · 07-23-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzyzx

that Terminal body roll point.

A.K.A. = "OOOOHHHHH SSSSHHHHIIIIIITTTTTT!!!!!"

I think we've ALL known since Kindergarten.....

Front wheel drive SUCKS!!!!!

jiggerachi · 07-23-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzyzx

There is more body roll then when I had my 25.4mm front bar... But , body roll isnt really a big deal, as it can be compensated for by running more negitive camber on the front.

That sucks. I'm scared of camber, I dont know shit about it

Actually, it looks like I have a little positive camber on the front, I noticed that the other day

I guess I should start learning how to fix that.

Zzyzx · 07-23-2004

Little info on alignments... The proper alignment (Camber Castor and toe) can turn an understeering pig of a car in to a cornering champ.... even on the stock suspension.

Heres a good site, that covers the Racing aspect of alignments.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

Zzyzx · 07-23-2004

Here are some shots that may show you how much body roll you may get by running the 15.9mm front bar and the 19mm rear bar (With Eibach springs wich are suppose to be about 20% stiffer then stock)

so you can see that there is some body roll , but its not excessive

Green Civic · 07-23-2004

^ Would you call that too much? When do you know when you gone over the limit?

Zzyzx · 07-23-2004

well theres no reall limit, but basically you want to minimize the camber loss you get with body roll. you can do so by either reducing the total amount of body roll or by running More negitive camber (I run about -2 to -2.5 on the front...)

Sickboy · 07-23-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggerachi

^Another question I just thought of:

How bad is the body roll with a 15.9 front bar?? I think im going to get one, but since i'm on stock suspension for a month or so, i'm worried i'll have a ton of body roll with it, untill I can get some stiffer struts(Konis). What kind of difference would you think it would make concerning body roll??

15.9/19 combo = excessive body roll. I ran it for a while on stock suspension. It handles better at the limits, but the car wandered at high speeds. It also doesn't feel balanced at all, IMO it's cheating the car's geometry to help the light rear end come around. Probably great for autocross, but pissed me off the rest of the time. It wouldn't surprise me if it was cornering on the bumpstops, like that civic si webpage zzyzx posted. But what do I know, I usually spend my time RWD and tuning mountain bike suspensions. It's a cheap bar though so why not try it.