You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join civicforums.com today!
Ok, so Its weird how accidents lead the way to new discoveries......
So I was changing out my front lower control arm bushings (at my dads shop in San Diego), over the long Thanksgiving weekend. During the install, we broke one of the endlinks for the front anti-roll bar. So any way, now my front anti-roll bar is disconnected and I’ve noticed one big difference… Less Understeer, and the car just feels more balanced in the corners. Plus it’s easier to get the rear end to rotate. Now I’m not saying for every body to go and disconnect their front anti-roll bar, but its something you may want to experiment with. Me, I’m going to run with the bar disconnected at the Nationals, I’ll give a full report after.
Suspension set up as of 12/15/03
Eibach Sportline springs
RSX 19mm Rear Anti-Roll bar.
Neuspeed Front Strut tower bar.
Stock 25.4 mm Front Anti-roll bar (01 EX) Now disconnected
Energy Suspension Front Lower Control arm bushings.
To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
Autocross: Because Life is more fun on three wheels......
"I know Solo only comes one minute at a time, but what an intense, non-stop, fast-forward car control exercise minute it is. Sure, the velocity is higher in road racing, but inside the car it is slow-motion in comparison. In Solo, the turns come like machine-gun rounds. "
Randy Pobst
Sponsored Links
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at CivicForums.com
By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
Bah I was just working on my review of the 19mm RSX rear sway with the tiny 16mm front stock bar on my 03'. Looks like I don't need to because you beat me to it. The last two days I played around with my car at my work's parking lot and I noticed how much easier it was to whip it around corners. I'm thinking the 16mm front bar is pretty worthless.
i was thinking about getting a smaller front stock bar from an 03+ civic to see how that worked. but I might see how the bushings and the coilovers make the car feel first.
Sickboy, remember if your car starts to slip out in the rear, HIT the gas, don't brake or let off the gas. Just a reminder. Want you being safe.
__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
Thanks for the warning Rob but I've already had to learn most of this front wheel drive stuff already. Talk about a change from my old rear wheel drive that I had for 6 years (1971 Datsun pickup, 94 horsepower, ~2000lbs.). The things we sacrifice for family...
Progress rear sway w/ tie
Cusco rear upper strut
neuspeed x-brace
neuspeed front upper brace
KW V2 full hard rear, half hard(or half soft) up front
Falken Azenis 205/50/15
and no front sway
I noticed a big difference in understeer. The only reason the front sway off is because I removed it prior to getting my progress front in. I don't think i will install the new bar now. It was amazing the difference i had in corner entry, barely any push. I ran FSP btw.
Last edited by wannabeblown; 12-15-2003 at 05:10 PM.
Originally posted by Boilermaker1 Just take the X bar off and run STS... you'll probably have more fun.
Meanwhile... I've been kicking around the 03 front bar. I guess this confirms my thoughts that it would be better.
it was the last autocross for the season, no points so i wasn't really worried. I also placed 3rd out of all SP. I got whooped up by a miata and a cooper works mini.
K&N FIPK II / HP Top Portion Header / Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar / RSX 19mm Rear Sway Bar
Generic Rear Upper Strut Bar / 15" Silver Rota Slipstreams (11.8lbs) / 205/60/15 Falken ZE-512's
neuspeed front upper strut
h&r sport
19mm rsx rear sway
215/45/17 yoko es100
front driver side strut blown
i notice its alot harder to drive when i install the neuspeed front upper strut, it understeer ALOT more, but after 1 event i got used to it, it actually help me take 0.5-1 sec off average, now i got kw v2, ALOT better, havent try out on autox yet cuz installed a few weeks ago, but i think i can take 2 sec off average
i know with my EF i would loosen the front bar and run a larger rear like i have now on this 7thgen but i havent messed with the front bar yet...but yeh stiffer rear loose front is good
Ok, so far I am more then likeing this setup. The car just feels, Light. and as long as I'm smooth with the car it is Very tossable. especially if I trail brake, the ass end just slides over, points the car in the right direction, and then back on the gas, accelerating away.....
The bushings took about 2 hours to put in, You're going to need a Press to get the old ones out and press the new ones in. We used a 20 Ton press...... thats the hardest part really. I only did the fronts, The rears looked to be ok, so I probably wont change them untill next year. The car feels more stable with them in, more responsive even. no more suspension wobbles mid corner....
Oh ya, I went with Energey suspension polyurithane bushings. Much nicer then stock rubber....
yeah I have the bushings in my apt. i have to put them in though. I heard the fronts were easy except the press part. Opto-isolator says the rears are a PITA. once those and the JICs go in then I will decide about the FASB.
__________________ Life isnt a test drive, gotta live a little. (02fpcivic)
Hey Rob, want to buy my front bar? I would suggest against it though. I was running the stock 03 front bar with the progress rear set up for a while. The car rotated great, but turn in was unresponsive and the inside rear wheel would catch some serious air on 90 degree turns. Just a thought.
^^ that would help, but then it would also eat tires..... you could also dial in a bit-o-toe out on the nose, but that would eat tires quicker then the negitive camber.
Toe out will help initate a corner, but it will also make the car want to wander in the straights.... Toe in will make a car more stable going in straight lines but hinder cornering.....
So for the street, and average Joe schmoe driver. Toe in is the way to go. If you are trying to extract every last bit of handling out of your car, a Little toe out may help.
Case in point.... Here is the setup for this years STS wining Civic (89 Si) camber = 3.25 deg negative in front, 2.3 negative in rear
toe = slight toe out in front (depends on tightness of course) and zero toe in rear
Here is the alignment settings on a good STS classed Neon
Alignment (camber) 2.5 to 3 degrees negative in the front. 1.5 to 2 degrees in the rear.
Alignment (toe) Zero toe in the rear and between 1/8" and 1/4" Toe OUT in the front.
and finally a STS preped Subaru Impresa 2.5 RS
Alignment (camber) 3 degrees front. 1.5 degrees rear.
Alignment (toe) 1/4' Toe OUT in the front. 1/8" Toe OUT in the rear. A less aggressive setup would be involve less toe front, but I would keep the toe out in the rear.
Autocross: Because Life is more fun on three wheels......
"I know Solo only comes one minute at a time, but what an intense, non-stop, fast-forward car control exercise minute it is. Sure, the velocity is higher in road racing, but inside the car it is slow-motion in comparison. In Solo, the turns come like machine-gun rounds. "
Randy Pobst
I has been my experience that until you go more negative than 2 degrees, camber has a small effect on tire wear, especially the way I drive. On the other hand, small toe differences make big differences in tire wear.
true Toe adjustmenst will eat tires quicker then camber adjustments. (thats the big reason NSXs eat rear tires.... Honda Dialed in a bit of toe in to stabilize the rear end in the corners, the side effect...... it eats rear tires like candy).
but we are talking about Maximum handling.... if you dont want the extra wear, 0 toe front and back would be a comprimise.
As noted above, I am seriously liking how the car is handling right now, so much that I'm going to leave it this way for a while. So Far I've noticed 2 things, one is the noticable reduction in understeer, to the point that it jsut about doesn't exzist. Oversteer is just a throttle lift away.... . on the down side, Ive noticed that I have to drive smoother to not get said oversteer in a corner (Gives me a reason to perfect my Left foot braking). No biggie, I needed to be smoother any way. Also, There seems to be a reduction in spinning the inside tire on corner exits... so accelerating out of corners is a bit better too......
I cant wait till February..... First autocross of the season Locally.... Of course theres allways the National event in January!!!!!!!!
Autocross: Because Life is more fun on three wheels......
"I know Solo only comes one minute at a time, but what an intense, non-stop, fast-forward car control exercise minute it is. Sure, the velocity is higher in road racing, but inside the car it is slow-motion in comparison. In Solo, the turns come like machine-gun rounds. "
Randy Pobst
theres a guy from honda-tech names Driven on most boards hes from las vegas too has a yellow crx does solo 2 there i believe....ima disconect mines and see how it is with my setup maybe ill like it i could use some more oversteer
Originally posted by jdmb16ahatch theres a guy from honda-tech names Driven on most boards hes from las vegas too has a yellow crx does solo 2 there i believe....ima disconect mines and see how it is with my setup maybe ill like it i could use some more oversteer
^^ I've driven that car.....^^^
One hell of a ride, of course he neglected to tell me that it has a mean case of Throttle lift oversteer and I spun it going through some offset gates........
this would be the car I believe..
Autocross: Because Life is more fun on three wheels......
"I know Solo only comes one minute at a time, but what an intense, non-stop, fast-forward car control exercise minute it is. Sure, the velocity is higher in road racing, but inside the car it is slow-motion in comparison. In Solo, the turns come like machine-gun rounds. "
Randy Pobst
